LISTEN: Sen. Max Cleland, who died two years ago, had a long and illustrious career in politics, running the Veterans Administration during Jimmy Carter's presidency and serving as Georgia's secretary of state and U.S. senator. Ethics watchdog William Perry has started the Max Cleland Project to preserve his legacy. He talks with GPB's Orlando Montoya.
Orlando Montoya: Ethics watchdog William Perry is co-founder of the Max Cleland Project. Thank you for joining me.
William Perry: Absolutely. Thank you for having me.
Orlando Montoya: First off, what is your connection to Max?
William Perry: Max was not only my former employer, but kind of a political and life mentor for me. I met him as a student at the University of Georgia when I was conducting campus voter registration drives when he was serving as Georgia's secretary of state. We hit it off. He was impressed with my work and offered me a job coming out of college, and I became a driver and aide, which for Max Cleland, was a much different role than most politicians' aides, because obviously being a triple amputee, he needed certain physical assistance. But he also really used that opportunity to mentor people, take you under his wing. If you were someone that he trusted, he really exposed you to a lot. And so I got to participate in a lot of things you don't get to participate normally as a staffer in politics.
Orlando Montoya: And you describe the Max Cleland Project as a mission to collect stories of laughs and tears, surprises and inspiration. What is the Max Cleland Project?
William Perry: In short, I look at it as an opportunity to preserve Max's legacy. Now, his story has been told. A lot of people are familiar with it, so I didn't want to go about retelling the story, but more telling the story of Max's impact on others and him through their eyes. Because, as I found, Max was many different things to many different people — all at the same time of being a U.S. senator. I mean, it's just incredible.
Orlando Montoya: And there will be a documentary, a website.
William Perry: Yes, the Max Cleland Project. Right now we have a website we're looking to build. I really want hundreds, if not thousands of interviews of people telling their stories. That will be a full collection of his legacy. And I want to place it in a directory sort of thing where you could see, listen to people stories about his Vietnam career, his political career, his personal life, his boyhood. So we'll be looking to a place to host these interviews once it's complete so that legacy lives on. And from those stories, we do want to do a full-length documentary about him.
Orlando Montoya: And let's do talk a little bit about the man himself. Many people know that he lost three limbs in Vietnam and made veterans a cornerstone of his public service. He ran the Veterans Administration during Jimmy Carter's presidency. Here's what he said in that role about the war in 1978.
Max Cleland: I think that part of the problem that we will have with Vietnam veterans is unfortunately the negative image that the war, in a sense, created for us. I am personally committed to making sure that those who have served this country and served it well, particularly the disabled veteran, gets the finest treatment in our hospital system possible.
Orlando Montoya: How did the problems that he faced both during and after the war shape his decision-making?
William Perry: Obviously, Max Cleland had an everyday reminder of the impacts of the Vietnam War, and because he was such a visible, recognizable figure, he couldn't go anywhere without a Vietnam veteran stepping forward and saying hello and Max would always stop and make time for them, no matter what kind of hurry he was in, or if we had to be somewhere. He was always stopping and it was always a hug and "Thank you for your service, brother." And he looked at it like that. They were on his mind with everything he did inside and outside of politics.
Orlando Montoya: And there is a lot of his career between 1978 and 2002. But I want to fast forward to what he said was his biggest regret of his career, and that was when he served in the U.S. Senate.
Max Cleland: Bush put a lot of heat on us and on me, all of us up in 2000 do to vote for the Iraq war resolution. Because if we didn't, then we were going to be unpatriotic. I voted for the Iraq resolution, co-sponsored the Homeland Security bill, and I was still accused of being unpatriotic and and having my picture morphed with bin Laden and and Saddam Hussein.
Orlando Montoya: More than 20 years after that superheated time now, what stands out to you about what he did and how he responded in those moments?
William Perry: Well, you know, at that time, this sort of political ad was unprecedented. We're numb to it today. But back then, nobody attacked a veteran and called them unpatriotic, much less someone who lost three limbs in Vietnam. So, I mean, it was such a bizarrely, I guess, kind of surreal situation that it was actually happening. And I don't think any of us believed that it was going to work. Unfortunately, it did.
Orlando Montoya: And it affected him, he wrote. Anxiety, depression in the years that followed.
William Perry: Absolutely. That was kind of the moment that his — his PTSD really surfaced. It was the first time in his life that unbelievably something was taken away from him. There was no other, you know, Democrats or even politicians to console with under those circumstances. I think that — that sense of loss and the dread really resurfaced all of the pain from Vietnam, because when he did come back from Vietnam and struggled with those, the thing, the physical things to overcome. You know, he was constantly hailed as a hero. He never accepted the fact that he was a hero. But people always still were heaping praise on him. So then for the first time to be attacked so negatively and people believe it just had such an impact that he — it was reliving Vietnam all over again for him.
Orlando Montoya: So many people talk about his Vietnam service and his Senate service and, of course, the infamous 2002 campaign. But if that's all you know about Max Cleland, what would you like to share?
William Perry: Well, you know, one thing that I really hope that this project portrays is that Max was just a really good guy. You know, that's why I named my son after him. His heart was in a place where no politician's hearts seemed to go. He really did care about people. And it was the little things like that that were just unbelievable because, I mean, it was like his — his guard was never up when he was around people, and he really fed off of people and meeting them and hearing their stories. And spending as much time as I did with him, I got to see that that was coming from a very genuine place. And that is something that is just rare in a person, much less a politician.
Orlando Montoya: Finally, how can people get involved?
William Perry: I'd like him to find the Max Cleland Project on social media and certainly the website, TheMaxClelandProject.com. And there are a number of ways to get involved. But one of the most important ways is to share your Max Cleland story. And you don't have to know Max; if he had some kind of impact or you know, him as an inspirational figure, we're really looking to preserve his legacy through other people's eyes, and we want people to get involved that way.
Orlando Montoya: William Perry, co-founder of the Max Cleland Project. Thanks once again.
William Perry: Thank you so much.
