Georgia Today: Trump's mass deportation plan; GA could get first national park; Psilocybin mushrooms

Peter Biello: Welcome to the Georgia Today podcast from GPB News. Today is Thursday, Nov. 7. I'm Peter Biello. On today's episode, President-elect Donald Trump promised mass deportations. Does he have the resources to pull it off? Georgia could be closer than ever to having its first national park. The new research shows psilocybin therapy could help treat mental illness. These stories and more are coming up on this edition of Georgia Today.

 

Story 1:

Peter Biello: President-elect Trump has promised a mass deportation effort to remove the 11 million or so unauthorized migrants who live in the U.S. The American Immigration Council estimates that as of 2020, that's about 400,000 people in Georgia. For more on what it would take for the next president to carry out his plan, we turn to attorney Charles Kuck. He's with the firm Kuck/Baxter, which specializes in immigration law. Welcome to the program.

Charles Kuck: Great to be with you today.

Peter Biello: So rounding up and deporting 11 million people sounds like an effort that's going to require a lot of government resources. Does the government have the resources to do this?

Charles Kuck: No, they definitely don't. It costs about $11,000 to detain and deport an undocumented immigrant, plus another $2,000 ... to transport them out of the United States. Those numbers are from 2016. ICE is not funded at that level. And the estimates that we've seen most recently, we're talking about several hundred billion dollars to deport this many people together with the fact that we simply not only have don't have the money, but we don't have the actual resources to make that happen in any time frame that reflects reality.

Peter Biello: Could the federal government sort of force state resources to lend a hand in this effort?

Charles Kuck: No. But what we have seen is that the president in the past, President Trump, took money from the from a defense budget to carry out some of his immigration work. So I can see some robbing of Peter to pay Paul. But it's still not within the context of the current finances of the government or their physical ability to do this at this time.

Peter Biello: And we're talking about a period of four years, right? Not a period of one year.

Charles Kuck: The most — Tom Homan, who was the head of ICE under Trump, talked about this just a couple of days ago. They're talking about maybe, maximum, a million people a year, maybe. Keep in mind, Obama deported about 700,000 or 800,000 a year in his first four years of being president. So it's not impossible to do this. But Obama did that with a much smaller, almost nonexistent backlog. Keep in mind, almost any immigrant who's been here for more than two years must go through the immigration court system. The immigration court system currently has 3.5 million cases already in their backlog with about 675 judges. But again, it's about reality versus wishes at this point.

Peter Biello: I suspect a lot of people are worried about the Trump administration coming in and simply not caring that there is due process involved. And they could deport people, put them on planes and send them to other countries and then beg for forgiveness, so to speak, later. Is that a possibility that you're concerned about?

Charles Kuck: No, I'm not really concerned about that, because the judiciary still exists in United States, and at least so far, the Trump administration has promised to follow the law as it exists. So if if that is happening for somebody who is eligible for some relief, a quick habeas in federal court will stop that plane from taking off. But — so I'm not — I'm not truly worried about mass detention, walking into a neighborhood and arresting 500 people. And it's quite clear that they're really going to focus first on the people that they consider most dangerous and, I think, easiest to deport.

Peter Biello: Meaning people who already have pending criminal charges?

Charles Kuck: Exactly. Although there's not that many of those people, but also people that have asylum cases that have been resolved. There's actually over a million people who have final removal orders; already been through the process. It's a question of tracking them down and carrying out the process. So those will be easy. Also, [for] the individuals who have been paroled into the United States under the Biden administration, under the Cuban, Nicaraguan, Haitian and Venezuelans, it's a simple act of canceling the parole. They know where these people live. They track them. So it would be very easy for them to actually just round them up like in a butterfly net. They're not entitled to due process for the most part because many have not applied for asylum or are not eligible for asylum. They're just here as parolees. There is a lot of people they can initially round up.

Peter Biello: What about work visas? The Trump administration has expressed interest in limiting legal immigration to the United States. What changes do you see happening to the work visa program?

Charles Kuck: I'm glad you brought that up. There's going to be a lot of restrictions put onto the different work visa programs that exist in the United States. Principal among them, the H-1B program. The Trump administration previously tried to make a number of changes to the program, but had waited too long into their administration to make that happen. And all those changes were tossed aside. But we think we'll see a lot of these new regulations probably promulgated early in the Trump administration as it pertains to the H-1B work visa, including things like reviewing cases for people who maybe aren't working where they're supposed to be, increasing the filing fees, limiting visas to the most highest-paid individuals. So, right now, there's about 700,000 people on H-1B visas. Virtually every one of those is at risk of being re-adjudicated and being denied their status and having to leave the United States.

Peter Biello: What about DACA recipients?

Charles Kuck: Well, that is truly the most heartbreaking part of all this. There is no doubt in my mind that early in February of 2025, we'll see a federal register notice withdrawing the DACA program. So it won't matter what the courts have done on that. This time — Now, keep in mind, last time Trump did do this, but they did it wrong. And so they got sued and they were stopped from terminating the program. They have learned their lesson. They were amateurs before. They are not amateurs anymore. So I do expect the DACA program to come to a screeching halt for renewals and those with DACA as they gradually expire will simply become undocumented or be put into removal proceedings. The good news, however, is that about a half a million original DACA recipients have already obtained their green cards through various processes, mostly including marriage, and there are many more that could do so before this termination happens.

Peter Biello: And could those green cards be revoked?

Charles Kuck: No. Most green cards are not going to be revoked. They would have to — the immigration service has to go through a fraud process to do that and most green cards are not procured by fraud. There is, of course, the threat for those who have naturalized over the course of their lives. And the Trump administration is promising to go back and look at all naturalization to see if there was some underlying problem with the green card that they received. So we will see a raft of denaturalization processes early in that — in the ... in the Trump administration.

Peter Biello: If that does take place, is there precedent for that?

Charles Kuck: The Trump administration did this and the Biden administration actually has continued that process. The Trump administration was really the first in the last 30 years to really go back and look at people's naturalization processes, especially as it pertains to those who are subsequently committed — convicted of crimes. Because there is a very odd question on the naturalization form, and it's this: "Have you ever committed a crime for which you have not been arrested?" They have that question there because if you, in fact, are arrested later, and if you did before you naturalized, they can take your green card away because you lied on the form about that.

Peter Biello: Hmmm.

Charles Kuck: Yeah. They absolutely do do this. They haven't done it in wide numbers. But the reality is there's nothing stopping them from doing that.

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Peter Biello: What happens to the parents who — parents who came here illegally, but their children were born here and became citizens by birthright citizenship?

Charles Kuck: I don't think the Trump administration and those that work with it will care that families are separated. You know, the odd part about this is that, of course, when a child turns 21 as a citizen, they can sponsor their mom and dad. But for the most part, if mom and dad came in without a visa, they came in illegally. They can't get a green card here. They have to leave the country. And current law says that they need to leave the country. They can't come back for 10 years.

Peter Biello: Hmmm.

Charles Kuck: Basically, yes. We will deport parents of U.S. citizens who will essentially all come back in 10 years. I mean, this just seems kind of stupid in the long run.

Peter Biello: We've heard anecdotally about those parents that we just described, parents who came here illegally, who have children, who have birthright citizenship, transferring their assets to those children as a way to protect them. Is that a smart thing to do?

Charles Kuck: It is at this point. You have to take the Trump administration on its word about what it's doing. I know we're talking to clients and giving them handouts, not only about their rights, but proactive measures that they can take to prepare in case they are detained, in case they are arrested. Things that they need to have ready. So they're 1. not immediately deported under what's called expedited removal. And 2. that they have an opportunity to fight their case in immigration court. People have to be prepared this time. I think before they thought it was a joke, but now it's not.

Peter Biello: There was a bill that would have gotten through had candidate Trump not pressured the Republican House speaker to kill it. We're talking a lot here about people going through the courts, the court system, which is very backlogged. We're talking about a border that people are passing through sometimes at points of entry, sometimes not. Would that bill have sped things up in the court right now for what President-elect Trump is proposing to do?

Charles Kuck: It would absolutely have made the process faster and technically more efficient for the government, not necessarily more fair for the foreign national. But that bill's not coming back in the form it was in when it passed. They no longer need Democrat votes. And if they can get 7 or 8 Democrats in the Senate, they can pass the most restrictive piece of legislation since 1924 as it pertains to asylum seekers and legal immigrants in the United States. And I expect them to try to do so.

Peter Biello: We talked earlier about, at best, the Trump administration, given the resources that it will have, deporting a million people a year for the next four years. I know you're not an economist, but what do you think that will do to our society, the function of society as far as the work those people do and the consumption that they do?

Charles Kuck: Well, the good news, I don't have to be an economist to know this, because economists actually have written on this already. You're talking about the beginning of a massive recession. You're taking out of the economy 4 million workers. Now, keep in mind, these immigrants aren't sitting at home eating bonbons and sucking off government benefits. They're actually working. They have jobs. I think the Chamber of Commerce will start to freak out about the middle of Year 1 when all their members start complaining that they've lost their hotel workers, their field workers, their restaurant workers, manufacturing workers, and there is literally nobody to take those jobs. So we will — we will absolutely have a recession if that happens. And I don't see a way out of it because we're simply not birthing enough babies to replace the jobs we are creating in the United States.

Peter Biello: Will the administration hear that warning from the Chamber of Commerce and care, or are they so determined to fulfill this campaign promise that they will plow forward, consequences be damned?

Charles Kuck: Well, I think we have to look at the people that are behind these promises, the nativists' youth movement, people like Stephen Miller and Gene Hamilton. They simply don't care about the effect on the economy. They're more focused on the fact that immigrants are here themselves and polluting the gene pool. You hear a lot of eugenics talk out of these people. It's literally 1924 redux. And so I don't think they care. Trump may ultimately care. But keep in mind, Trump, presumably, is not running for reelection. So for him, he may just want to say, you know, I'm going to do what I said I was going to do and I'm going to deport everybody.

Peter Biello: So what advice would you have for those at risk of deportation under Trump Part 2?

Charles Kuck: One: Prepare. If you've been in the United States longer than two years, you must prove that if you're stopped by an immigration officer. So you need to carry with you at all times evidence that you've been in the United States for longer than two years. If you've been here for 10 years, you have a right to fight that in court, your deportation. So you need to gather the evidence, now that you've been in the United States for 10 years, that you're a person of good moral character, that you have children in the United States and for purposes of bond from detention, because immigrants who are detained or not convicted of crimes are eligible for a bond in immigration court. You should gather and have those documents ready and have money saved so you can pay your bond. Immigration court is pure cash bonds. It's not like criminal court where you can pay 10%. So you need to save four, five, six, eight, $12,000 just in your back pocket so that you can pay that bond if you're detained. Those are the minimum that you need to have ready.

Peter Biello: Charles Kuck, immigration attorney, thank you so much for speaking with me. Really do appreciate it.

Charles Kuck: It's my pleasure, Peter. Thank you.

 

Story 2:

Peter Biello: Democrats have toppled two Republican incumbents in the Georgia state House but won't narrow the Republican majority much. Democrat Floyd Griffen, a former state senator and mayor of Milledgeville, beat Ken Vance and Democrat Brice Berry beat Misha Maynor in the central Atlanta district. The partisan balance in the state Senate remains at 33 Republicans and 23 Democrats, as it was before the election, after all incumbents won on Tuesday.

 

Story 3:

Now that a new Congress and president have been elected, time is ticking on getting legislation passed in the current Congress. For two members of Georgia's congressional delegation, the priority is help for farmers and what could be Georgia's first national park at Macon's Ocmulgee Mounds. GPB's Grant Blankenship has more on their progress.

Peter Biello: Republican House member Austin Scott and his Democratic colleague Sanford Bishop jointly took part in a moderated question and answer session before members of Macon's Chamber of Commerce. Scott told them the bill to create the national park and preserve still enjoys bipartisan support and should not have taken this long to pass. He says his challenge now is securing votes from Republicans in Western states opposed to setting aside any new federal land.

Rick Scott: So there are people that I've had to go to and say, hey, "Well, if you can't support it, can you — can you not be against it?"

The bill will have hearings in both Senate and House committees later this month. Scott says passing it and obtaining hurricane relief for Georgia farmers are on his must-do list by the end of the year. For GPB News, I'm Grant Blankenship in Macon.

 

Story 4:

Peter Biello: Rudy Giuliani is expected to appear in a New York City courtroom today to explain to a federal judge why he hasn't surrendered his valuables as part of a $148 million defamation judgment. The judge issued the order after lawyers visited Giuliani's Manhattan apartment last week only to discover it had been cleared out. The judge had set an Oct. 29 deadline for the former New York City mayor and longtime ally of Trump to surrender his possessions to election workers Ruby Freeman and her daughter, Shae Moss.

Caption

Gared Hansen cuts psilocybin mushrooms in his Uptown Fungus lab to prepare for distribution in Springfield, Ore., Monday, Aug. 14, 2023.

Credit: (AP Photo/Craig Mitchelldyer)

Story 5:

Peter Biello: A new study from Emory University shows psilocybin-assisted therapy could help treat more than 5 million Americans experiencing mental illness if approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. GPB's Ellen Eldridge has more.

Ellen Eldridge: Psilocybin is the active hallucinogen in so-called magic mushrooms. The substance has helped treat people experiencing major depressive disorder and treatment resistant depression. Fayzan Rab is the lead author of the study. His analysis depicts the public health demand and economic impact based on medical eligibility.

Fayzan Rab: Some of that shadow that has been over the psychedelic space, I think that is starting to diminish and I think we're starting to look at it from a really kind of scientific and rigorous way. And I think we have a way to go with that, too.

Ellen Eldridge: Rab says there's still much to learn about psychedelic medicine. For GPB News, I'm Ellen Eldridge.

 

Story 6:

Peter Biello: A panel of state lawmakers is urging action to promote sustainable aviation fuel as an emerging market for Georgia's timber industry. Macon state senator [and] Republican John Kennedy chaired a legislative study committee on forestry advancement that finished its work today. He said while Georgia remains the nation's top state for timber, the industry is struggling.

John Kennedy: Market volatility and out-of-state closures within the supply chain have posed significant risk and continue to pose significant risk. These challenges result in higher prices for consumers and create uncertainty for the industry, despite the abundance of the raw material here within our state.

Peter Biello: The panel approved recommendations that include funding a Georgia-based research facility to help develop new forestry markets, including Sustainable Aviation fuel, or SAF. The Federal Aviation Administration recently awarded grants totaling more than $3 million to two Georgia projects related to SAF. Those projects are at a middle Georgia-based SAF producer, LanzaJet and at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport.

 

Story 7:

Peter Biello: Georgia's largest charitable foundation is getting a new leader. The Robert W. Woodruff Foundation said Tuesday, Russ Harden will retire at the end of January after serving nearly 20 years as its president. Vice President Eric Johnson will succeed him. The foundation was created in 1937 by legendary Coca-Cola chairman and Atlanta civic booster Robert W. Woodruff and has more than $4 billion in assets. It focuses exclusively on Atlanta area needs, providing significant support to many local institutions.

 

Story 8:

Peter Biello: The Ogeechee Riverkeeper is challenging state permits, allowing two Southeast counties to withdraw more than 6 million gallons of water per day from the region's underground water source, the Florida aquifer. The Georgia Environmental Protection Division issued the permits last month to Bullock and Bryan counties intending to supply water to a massive new Hyundai electric vehicle plant and surrounding developments. Plans for the wells have sparked intense pushback from local residents, farmers and environmental groups. In an administrative appeal to the EPD announced yesterday. The Riverkeeper disputes the agency's conclusions about the wells' impacts.

 

Story 9:

Peter Biello: The Atlanta City Council approved nearly $18 million to acquire more fire trucks for the city. The ordinance, passed earlier this week, will allow the city to purchase nine pumper trucks and three aerial trucks. A recent audit found about a third of the city's fire trucks are beyond their lifecycle, which is between 15 and 18 years. The report also found more than 20% are out of service at any point in time.

 

And that's a wrap on this edition of Georgia Today. If you want to learn more about any of these stories, check out GPB.org/news. And remember, subscribing is a great way to stay on top of all the Georgia headlines. So do that now and we will pop up automatically in your podcast feed tomorrow and every weekday afternoon. And as always, if you've got feedback, we are all ears. Send us an email. The address is GeorgiaToday@GPB.org. I'm Peter Biello. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you tomorrow.

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For more on these stories and more, go to GPB.org/news