Code Switch: A Conversation On Race That's Not 'Apocalyptic'

"A national conversation on race" is a phrase that you probably hear often. It feels like we can't avoid a conversation on race during this moment in America. So, after the conversation, what do we do? What happens next?

NPR's Gene Demby, the lead blogger on NPR's Race, Ethnicity and Culture Team, and a co-host of the podcast Code Switch, joined Leah Fleming to talk about just that.

Code Switch is now a radio show as well that will be carried on GPB beginning Sunday, Aug. 15 at 10 a.m. Code Switch will be paired with Life Kit, for an hour of important ideas and practical advice for our audiences. The hour will start with Code Switch which features the fearless conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on. 

 

The second part of the show, Life Kit offers tips, resources, and guidance on a wide range of topics. From workplace microaggressions to saving money to parenting and more, Life Kit talks to the experts to get the best advice out there. The topics will often revolve around race and identity, but they're always there to help listeners get through life together.

In their conversation, Demby explains to Fleming that there really is "no way to talk about the way America works, the way it functions, the way our systems operate without talking about race."

TRANSCRIPT

Leah Fleming: So lots of people are secretly — or not so secretly — just tired of talking about race. They're tired of having to explain their Blackness or tired of the fear of being called a racist or a Karen. So, what do you say to people who may be feeling this way, like "Why do we even have to talk about this?"

Gene Demby: I mean, one of the things about, you know, race in America is there's basically no way to talk about the way America works, the way it functions, the way our systems operate, without talking about race — whether we're talking about something like home loans or popular culture or, you know, electoral politics. You have to talk about race and talk about the implications of these categories that we call racial categories. And so, you know, it can seem really daunting — and sometimes it IS really daunting. Frankly, it's a hard subject to talk about. But we often try to talk about it in a way that is one: accessible, not too jargon-y, right? But two: Like, the way race shows up, it's not all, like, apocalyptic. And, you know, sometimes it's just like a lot of the conversation we're having are about relationships and our personal relationships. Sometimes they're about big systemic issues. But a lot of times we're just trying to focus on where the rubber hits the road on issues of race. That's about where you send your kids to school and who's marrying you, where you decide to live. All those questions are questions about race, whether we know it or not.

Leah Fleming: So the first part of the show, it features these conversations with journalists of color talking about race. And then the second part of the show, that's called Life Kit, and it offers tips on dealing with everything from workplace microaggressions to like what you're talking about in terms of finance. And let's talk about microaggression, though, for a minute. Have you ever experienced microaggression?

Gene Demby: Oh, of course. Of course. I mean, I've experienced microaggression, but I've experienced, you know, regular old aggression. You know, I grew up in South Philly and so I grew up in a very Black neighborhood. And when I went to college, it was the first time I'd sort of been in a place that was a mostly white space for any extended period of time, in which I'm basically in community or at least in shared space with white folks. And the way that stuff shows up is not always, you know, active, open contempt. A lot of times it's just, you know, like little snide remarks or little, like, unthoughtful, you know, like things that people don't know about. And even regardless of the intent, the things that they don't know or understand when they ask you questions or they say stuff to you can be really, really hurtful, right? Like, you know, even if it's not hurtful, it can just sort of remind you that these spaces were not intended for you to be in them. And then, of course, there’s microaggressions that extend to people who are queer, who are trans, you know, in that and all those identities complicate these microaggressions. But microaggressions, I mean, Leah, you know! I'm sure you have weathered some stuff yourself.

Leah Fleming: I definitely have. And it seems like moreso this year than ever before. I feel like I walk into a room and all of a sudden, you know, even in the workplace and all of a sudden I'm treated like this angry Black woman all the time. And I've said nothing. I've said nothing. And so it feels good to me to at least have this kind of conversation happening on my public radio where maybe someone other than me can explain what that feels like. 

Gene Demby: I mean, it's such a such a common set of experiences, right? I mean, and one of the reasons that, you know, when we were talking about moving from a podcast to becoming a radio show, was that, OK, so podcasts work in this way where the people who listen to your show subscribe to it, right? They seek you out. They listen to you every week, hopefully. But radio is, you know, there's a lot more opportunity for serendipity, right? Like somebody could be driving down the street and they could stumble across your show and they might not have been familiar with, you know, these conversations we have with Code Switch, but they might find them. And so, you know, the — like, literally, the conversation was like, "Imagine what would happen if we were on in cities like — cities like Atlanta, right?  And cities like Houston, cities like Chicago, cities like El Paso. Like these big cities that have these big brown populations, right? That where people are having these conversations. They are looking for spaces where what people are discussing these very — these very issues. And they might not know about the podcast. Like, that's a great opportunity for us and it's a great, I think, way for us to do some real public service to listeners of color who, you know, who might be looking for some space to sort of work out a lot of these big questions, you know? 

Leah Fleming: Mm-hmm. So who should listen to Code Switch and Life Kit? Everybody?

Gene Demby: I would say everybody! You know, I mean, obviously, you know, this is a moment in which people are paying attention to issues of race. And, you know, like, our podcast is not going to be controversy of the week, right? That's not what we do. That's not what the radio show will be. What we do is sort of take that extra step of sort of contextualizing what is happening or unpacking what is happening in the news. We personalize it, but we also place it in historical context. And we try to do it in a way that is not — you know, that IS provocative, right? But that is not, you know, it doesn't have this huge barrier to entry. And we assume that people can keep up, like we don't dumb it down, either, right? And I think there's just a lot of — there's so many big questions. We're asking these big questions now in this country about policing and about, you know, debt cancellation and about climate change. And, you know, all these questions are questions about race and history and colonialism. And those are all questions that — that are existential questions for the United States and for the world. And so we all have to be engaged in them. And I think we can have those conversations. I think we do have those conversations on Code Switch in a way that is — that is entertaining and thoughtful. But also, you know, like, they'll help us make sense of how big the stakes are, but how necessary. And what we have to do.

Code Switch and Life Kit will air every Sunday on GPB starting at 10 a.m.